PGGB reviews and listening impressions.

Compared with other upsampling

Written after moving to a Playback Designs MPS-8, about the listening he did on the DAC he owned before it.

“I have been dabbling with PGGB files with my previous DAC, a T+A DAC 200, and I found significant improvement with DSD512 PGGB files over streaming or any other format of files, no shocker there as it has been said by many previously.”

Compared with other upsampling

He had just said that processing with 25th order modulators takes patience.

“But it is well worth it, just throwing some random numbers about at this early stage, with Squeeze server and Squeeze player engaged in the K50, if I say PGGB V7 is a 40% improvement in clarity, bass definition, and transient response over the Qobuz redbook stream of this album, going from a PGGB V7 DSD 256 file to the PGGB V8 DSD 256 (25th order) file yields another 20% improvement in these same parameters.”

Rate and modulator

Posted in the T+A DAC 200 discussion rather than the PGGB thread, after he moved from DSD512 to DSD1024.

“While I think the improvement going from DSD512 (9th order) to DSD512 (25th order) was easier to hear, I still have been gobsmacked from the improvement of DSD1024 (25th order) over DSD512 (25th order). The developer of PGGB has often said his goal has been to improve “reconstruction accuracy”. That’s exactly what my ears tell me that I’m getting more of with DSD1024. Everything is a touch more real, in both the frequency and time domains. I was actually seriously blown away by what I heard from Led Zeppelin’s second album yesterday. This was by far the closest I’ve felt that I’ve been in the studio when this was recorded. Just so clear but also so energetic. The low end was so powerful but also more in control than ever.”

Everyday use

“I’ve moved to processing in DSD1024 instead of DSD512. Processing time is longer, so last night I involved a second Mac - a MacBook Pro (M4 Pro) with 24GB of RAM. I had to attach an external drive to provide enough free space for paging. Overnight it processed Revolver from The Beatles in DSD1024 / 25th order. Amazing that this could be pulled off with so little RAM.”

Transients and dynamics

“I was initially taken aback by the rimshots I heard in the track “Walking on Sacred Ground” by Janis Ian. The album that track is from, “Breaking Silence”, has for many years been one of my references. Despite that, the rimshot still surprised me as DSD512 with the 25th order modulator brought that to life in a way that was more convincing than ever. What I was not prepared for though was how much more realistic it was made to sound with the track processed as DSD1024 with 25th order modulator. ZB has often referred to “reconstruction accuracy”. Swapping back and forth between DSD1024 and DSD512 provided the clearest example I’ve heard yet of how PGGB is able to improve accuracy. The rimshot became slightly blurred and slightly veiled with DSD512. This caused the timber of the drumstick to become a bit less realistic. DSD1024 brought it better into focus and stripped away the veil. That resulted in a surprising increase in realism.”

Space and imaging

“I can certainly say that for well recorded classical orchestras, big band and modern jazz groups, PGGB is fabuloso! Most noticeable with orchestras (my most listened to), is the sense of concert hall ambience.”

Rediscovering a library

He was answering the point that not every recording gains.

“More generally I would agree not all recordings produce significant improvements when upsampled but generally there is enough gain in general sonic presentation for me to (as I am at present) run my entire Music folder through PGGB once I have settings I like with any new version.”

Rediscovering a library

Written to the developer. “This piece of software” is PGGB.

“It’s no exaggeration for me to say that if it had not been for this piece of software, I might not have upgraded my headphones and gear any further. It has opened a new chapter in my audio journey and it’s one that continues to bring lots of joy, the only downside being higher dental bills (from my jaw having hit the floor so many times).”

Rate and modulator

A ranking of three combinations on his own system. The double sign marks the larger gap.

“Here’s where I shake out: DSD 128 V8 >> DSD 64 V8 > DSD 128 V7. No surprise that DSD 128 V8 wins out BIGLY. However, my preference for DSD 64 V8 over DSD 128 V7 is probably worth explaining. On my rig: DSD 64 V8 offers a more precise and a quieter presentation relative to DSD 128 V7.”

Bass

“The things I typically look for when comparing upsampled material with native rate material: increased spatial cues, enhanced timbre, improved bass articulation. on the last one, I’ve been really surprised at the enhancement I’ve experienced in bass clarity and articulation from upsampling. When I started upsampling - especially with PGGB - I’ve became very surprised with how clean bass could sound.”

Noise floor and clarity

“The upgrade in sound quality at DSD 128 is substantial on my system (Pareto Audio Server -> IanCanada streamer -> Gustard R30). These 25th order modulators make the 7th order modulators used previously sound “hazy” in comparison. And that is something I would never have said hearing just the 7th order modulators in isolation. Of course, I am also getting the benefit of enhanced precision with the 25th order modulators since the noise floor has been lowered so much.”

Noise floor and clarity

He had run the same album at 9th and then 15th order before this.

“I spent 36 hours to process my Fiddler on the roof broadway album to DSD 2048 25th order and I was really shocked by the result. I literally sit there and listened to the whole album without stop. Can’t help but being drawn into the music. The sound is super transparent now so much so that one can hear every detail you can dream of. There is sevearl layer of high frequnecy that one can hear. there is total coherence from low to high and phrases are just as smooth as one wish. Everyone is in its natural position singing or playing their parts. No need to guess. And above all there is a sense of ease and one is listening to real music.”

Where listeners heard less

“I finally got around to comparing DSD512 and DSD1024 on my Cyan2, though I realize this is not the latest anymore (maybe the Gustard R30 is). Both are using the 9th order shaper. DSD1024 somehow lacks a bit of the sparkle/air that DSD512 has, but also seems to have a bit more weight and body. A slightly darker sound, basically.”

Everyday use

“And viola, Back to Back: my first ever fully processed album in DSD512 sourced from 192/24. Plays perfectly via Roon (yes, 44.1 kHz) or Squeeze via K50. Patting myself on the back as I am not a huge “computer guy” and have been simply streaming for many years- never have had a NAS, just 100 GB of some ripped CD’s and a dozen purchased DSD albums from NativeDSD. Not quite as easy as making toast, but on par with making a toasted PB+J sandwich.”

Space and imaging

“Listening to classical it feels so much easier to follow the interaction between different musicians in terms of sound stage and imaging. On occasions, even with high def PCM files, it wasn’t as clear as to their position to each other. It gave you a ball park whereas the DSD512x1 seems to make things so much clearer.”

Tone and timbre

“So far, on my system, the situation has been quite straightforward - music always sounds best using PGGB DSD512. And that’s despite there having previously been suggestions online that the ESS chip inside my DAC might react best to 5th-order noise shaping and that higher-order noise shapers may actually do more harm than good in terms of the final outgoing signal. Personally, this has never been the case to my ears and both the 7th-order and 9th-order noise shapers sound better.”

Tone and timbre

“Finally decided to buy the Plus version, it’s fixing something thats been bugging me, something I couldn’t correct with the older PCM only version of PGGB. I am a fan of John Williams soundtracks but a lot of them seemed discordant in massed orchestra sections. Using DSD256 PGGB upsampling eliminates this, wondering if there is a logical explanation?”

Rate and modulator

“My low-intensity evaluation of DSD512 vs DSD1024 on the marvellous Dac200 continues. Currently I would say that with some well-recorded acoustic recordings DSD1024 offers a little extra realism, more believability in the “room” in which the music was played and subtly more robust instrument character. But DSD512 is pretty close and with most recordings seems to offer a little more musical energy.”

Where listeners heard less

“Comparing between DSD512 and DSD1024 on the Cyan 2 (9th-order on both), I find them to be very close. I think I do prefer DSD1024 as sounding just a tad more transparent & etched overall. I didn’t do a blind test or anything, so it could just be “bigger is better” bias, and in any case, the differences seem small.”

Where listeners heard less

A classical listener on speakers, reporting where PGGB DSD did not win on his system.

“On the basis of what I have tested and bearing in mind that I am primarily a classical listener and exclusively use speakers rather than headphones, I have found that with PCM base files, I do not prefer the effect of PGGB conversions to DSD512. With DSD base files, I find that those of highest resolution in my collection (DSD256) do seem to be preferable when converted to DSD512.”

Space and imaging

“Some tracks (relatively simple ones) finally just feel both big (soundstage) and “right”, with others I keep experiencing jaw-dropping moments because each sound within the soundstage is not only properly “grounded”, but has its own space and holography, as if each sound was a separate musical event, happening independently of the others (in a good way, i.e. separation and precision, not lack of cohesion). This also applies to vocals which as a result feel much more life-like. Stunning.”

Noise floor and clarity

“With PGGB DSD, it is no contest. I can no longer listen to PGGB PCM 256. The first thing that strikes me is the difference in noise floor- it’s like watching OLED for the first time, and discovering that what I thought was 'black' was not actually black. The background on PGGB DSD is so jet black it is incredible- and the corresponding increase in resolving ability makes me feel like I upgraded a DAC all over again.”

Ease and naturalness

“Just yesterday, I was listening to Bach Brandenburg Concertos by Rinaldo Alessandrini and Concerto Italiano (Naive label 16/44.1), upsampled to PGGB DSD512. This is a fantastic recording with excellent texture, dynamics, and immediacy. But in DSD512, it became transcendent. The slightly bright tilt of the recording is gone, replaced by a rich and refined tonality. Rather than dissect the differences, it’s easier to describe the overall effect -- the music just has a sense of ease, and sounds more convincing, more real, and so much more emotionally engaging.”

Rediscovering a library

“For the last ~2 months I’ve continued to regularly listen to PGGB files on my Hibby RS8 DAP (32x PCM, 20bit) through a variety of headphones and IEMs. The clarity, detail, and realism in sound continues to impress! I expected this application of PGGB to be a “flash in the pan” exercise, but I’m having a hard time switching back. It’s not convenient to haul around PGGB files on micro-SD flash cards, but IMHO very worth it.”

Ease and naturalness

“The last round was a real difference maker for me as far as allowing me to enjoy music that had previously had a bit of an edge. Not only has the edge been removed, naturalness has taken quite a nice leap forward. Just the other night I was listening to Neil Young’s Live Rust and was frankly astonished by how wonderful it sounded. Surprising to me was that processing at 32 bit instead of 24 bit is partly responsible for taking the edge off.”

Ease and naturalness

“This combination did not sound over processed. It has made every CD sound almost like a record but with all the detail and punch and energy of a digital rig. Everything is so unbelievably balanced and natural and 'perfect' sounding that I can’t believe all these details were hidden away in the ones and zeroes on the CD. Now I can finally experience something similar to the processing the Big Boys have with their dedicated gaming PC server/streamer setup on my humble low powered Raspberry Pi.”

Tone and timbre

“So, with Santana’s 'Samba Pa Ti' for example, what originally came across as a bit of a 'wall of sound' now illustrates the small changes in vibrato, volume and tone as Carlos moves around the fretboard and just how expert a musician he is; on 'Life on Mars' Bowie’s voice is much more British and I detect sneers and sarcasm in his singing that really illustrates the lyrics and their potent message.”

Rediscovering a library

“My only regret at the time of purchase is that this software wasn’t available 10 years ago. I haven’t enjoyed listening so much since the days when I first discovered the music I would love. Indeed, PGGB enables a voyage of musical rediscovery that I am only now beginning.”

Space and imaging

“At first I noticed how much more planted vocalists were in front of me. They held center sound-stage in a more definite and confident way. In fact all the performers and instruments gained substance, definiteness. This struck me so immediately that I first thought that the soundstage had closed in. It wasn’t the space that had been reduced but rather that hazy, diffuse quality that can feel like space. PGGB populated the environment with notes of greater solidity.”

Bass

“What is just as satisfying is that while room correction extends only to about 250Hz, it’s apparent that my smeared bass was masking midrange detail because my midrange clarity has also very noticeably improved. Vocals have taken on a new level of clarity and audibility. This is a remarkable level of transparency that I had not experienced before with room correction.”

Rediscovering a library

“And what’s amazing is that the biggest impact on SQ in many cases has been on 1FS (redbook) recordings that had been languishing for years in my library. Many of my 1FS albums are now sounding as good as, or even better than, some more recent hi-res purchases. Finally, and most important of all: PGGB has led me to rediscover, and fall in love all over again, with my library. That’s priceless.”